Since a discussion about climate change with my buddy Sol gave me the inspiration to start this blog, I figured I'd make it the first post.
Many people say that climate change is a real danger that the planet faces today, and that humans are the cause of it. Others say that it's nothing more than the regular ebb and flow of the environment, and that humans have nothing to do with it. There are many conflicting reports saying, "All scientists believe this is a problem" or "Scientists say this is a hoax". What do you believe, and do you have any reliable information to back it up?
Keep in mind that Sol will probably blow everyone out of the water with research, so be prepared for that.
I was trying so hard not to bite at your political statements on Goldengrove, but now that you've so kindly made a blog just for politics, I'll bite.
ReplyDeleteI think global warming is occuring. That being said, I cannot prove it. Nothing can be proved in science. All you can do is gather evidence until we're convinced. I am convinced by the evidence. Can we prove that DNA is the genetic material? No. Is there enough evidence so that we agree that it is true beyond reasonable doubt? Yes.
I have another question for you (Troy). Even if it wasn't occuring, shouldn't we still try to be as nice to the environment as possible? Doesn't it still seem smart to not pollute, to use renewable energy sources (yay my house's solar panels!), not to use pesticides (hehe) and to not harm the environment? What is the downside of that? So, even if you don't believe that global warming is occuring, shouldn't you still be kind to the environment?
-Beverly
Beverly-I agree with you that we should be nice to the environment. I don't necessarily think it unconditionally DESERVES to be well kept, but rather we NEED it to be well kept. Imagine if companies like BP were dumping oil all over the place. The way of life on the Gulf for humans and animals was torn apart by that spill. And things such as renewable energy resources make sense for more reasons than just a cleaner planet-it's a business. Someone had to develop the technology to manufacture those solar panels to put on your house. It's cleaner, and creates a better way of life in general.
ReplyDeleteHowever, I don't think "global warming" is something we need to be concerned with (I don't have the numbers for it either). Are we changing the atmosphere? Probably, it's not as if the earth has experienced industry such as this before. But that we could drastically alter the atmosphere of a planet that's been around for billions of years in about two hundred seems a little far fetched to me.
So ... we should be kind to the environment exclusively for selfish reasons? Companies like BP *are* dumping oil all over the place, and won't perform a cleanup until it is cheaper to do than just let the oil keep flowing--why else do you think BP would be using mud so heavily in dealing with the spill? Thankfully, even the Troy/BP/corporate America logic is beginning to point to renewable energy for the same reason you cited above: it's good business. For instance, at current consumption levels, the Earth will only provide enough crude oil for as few as 21 years (http://techalive.mtu.edu/meec/module19/WorldOil.htm). However, at the rate we're going, the monetary motivation won't be enough to make a smooth transition away from oil by that time. For this reason, it will probably result in another huge economic recession--perhaps even a collapse. As you know, this will take down many more of your precious corporations that are "too big to fail." However, the people who are really hurt the most by such a recession are the middle and lower classes: companies are allowed to reorganize when they go bankrupt, leaving much of the residual debt with the public.
ReplyDeleteAs for the global warming issue, did you or did you not look at the links I posted in the _Goldengrove_ thread? How do you explain the obvious changes occurring in our atmosphere? As you know, as the global temperature rises, so does the sea level; this has the potential to displace many millions of people--again, many underprivileged--from their homes. Imagine many portions of New York City completely submerged: is *this* "something we need to be concerned with?" The sad part is that many of these injustices could be abated if we would just stop worrying about *profits* and *business* and just work together to fix our screw-ups.
Cheerio,
Sol Boucher
The problem with the "work together" logic is that it will never happen. It can't. Since humans have been intelligent enough to develop social structure, there have been wars. It's sad, really, but it's the truth. We can do as much as we can as an American people, but it's not just us (China was the 'dirtiest' nation in 2009, or something to that effect, according to Yahoo). As for global temperature: it's not as if it will stay the same all the time. What if the mean temperature dropped the 100 years previous? (If there is such information, like pre-1880, please post a link; I've always wondered how they could find this out). And the point I made that renewable energy is a business; money talks. Are you saying we should make it our goal to freely provide every household in America, and the world, with solar panels like those on Beverly's house? No one would be motiviated to do such a thing. I wish as much as you do that communist ideals worked in a large population. Could you imagine a world where no one was hungry because everyone shared their food, everyone was taken care of when they were sick, and where everyone would have a roof over their head every night? It would be fantastic. But unfortunately, humans don't operate that way. They need some sort of motivation. Hence the creation of currency.
ReplyDeleteThe problem there, Troy, is that people will eventually realize that something needs to be done about the environment and energy, and they'll do it. That's what started the green movement we see today. Not everything boils down to money and profit.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/aug/10/greenland-ice-sheet-tipping-point
ReplyDelete-- Sol
Glad to see some very educated discussion from the gentlemen of Tolland county not just kids spouting off their opinions. A rational discussion love it. Since you guys are having the discussion we are all learning from it.
ReplyDelete